The Shifty

One of the things Bell’s is known for (besides our beer) is our awesome artwork. Our labels and packaging have featured everything from animals to magicians, and there’s even more engaging art on the horizon. To learn about what goes into producing label and packaging art for Bell’s, we talked to Graphic Designer April Russell and Senior Graphic Designer Alex Smith for this episode of The Shifty. During the episode, April and Alex shared with us the process of transforming Larry Bell’s vision and turning it into tangible works. They also shared with us what it’s like to create art in such a fast-paced industry as well as the artistic process for works such as Arabicadabra. Links Lampshade Party Ale Double IPA Arabicadabra Coffee Milk Stout Arabicadabra sketches Deer Camp Bell's Unfiltered Commercial Transcript Alex Smith: They're not putting a new Graham Cracker out every three weeks to every other month, you know? Maddie Parise: Wouldn't that be great though? Alex: Yeah. I mean, a man can dream, but Let's be realistic. Let's not get ridiculous. Nick Lancaster: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Shifty, the show where we enjoy a post-shift beer with members of the Bell's team to learn more about what it is that they do. I'm Nick. Maddie: And I'm Maddie. For this episode, we talked to graphic designer April Russell and senior graphic designer Alex Smith about the work they've done for the brewery. So why did you guys come into work today? Alex: Interesting question. Nick: We like to start with a curve ball. April: We come into work because we just love what we do, we love the people. It's never a question. This is the first job I've had where I don't have to think about it -- I get up every day and I want to be here because I love what I do and every day is different, so I look forward to the variety and the spontaneity that the day usually brings, at least, for me. Alex: Mm-hmm, I can say that it's hard to find a job in commercial art work where you not only care about your product at all but is a product that you believe in and you're making that product with people that you value from every level. It's just a rarity, it's a highly unlikely place to actually find work and when you get to remind yourself of that every morning, it's just a straight shot into work. Maybe a little over the speed limit. April: Not too much though. Nick: So, when it comes to coming up with labels for beers or just artwork, how do you translate Larry's vision into something? Alex: Translating Larry's vision is something I think every person at this company has found a different way of doing. Larry is a visionary. Larry's got incredible history of seeing through the fog of war a thousand steps into the future, way past where anybody else can see and he recognized what craft beer was going to be before anybody else could. I think what's interesting about Larry is that he puts a huge amount of faith in his hires and especially as the company has grown and has gotten bigger and it's become more stable, he has become a lot less hands-on with stuff like artwork for example. He trusts his people, he wants to be involved, he wants to see it, he wants to give direction, but he ultimately is kind of like "Cool, you guys understand what I want. Make it happen. Lampshade is a good example, Lampshade Ale is going to be coming out this fall. He came into my office and he said, "You know that guy at the party with the lampshade on his head?" Nick: You know the type, you know him. Alex: "Let's do that." Maddie: Make it happen. Alex: Yeah, so we went through a bunch of different steps on that, at first, it was going to be an illustration. I drew a bunch of digital drawings of different ways it could be arranged and then we decided that that wasn't the way we wanted to go and in fact, it was going to be a photography thing. This was over the course of a year and a quarter that we worked on this project and eventually we kind of... You live with a project long enough and you talk to it and it starts to become a little bit more responsive and after that period happens the project kind of finds itself and gives its own momentum on which direction it wants to go. So, at a certain point we realized, no it's got to be photos and if there's going to be photos where do these photos come from? When was a lampshade on your head relevant? Well, back in the 60's. So who was in the 60's? Well, your aunt and uncle. What photos would have been taken of a guy in a lampshade of your aunt and uncle? Well, at a weird party that you didn't know happened and maybe you found photos in your attic when you were cleaning out your mom's house or something and you're curious who these party animals are. Well, that's Uncle Rick and Aunt Linda. I couldn't believe that they partied like that when they were young. The story's here to tell itself and it starts to become a thing and at a certain point creatively you are seeing what's working and what's not working and then you start to let the project have its own gravitational sling-shot around the idea. The momentum of it starts to carry itself and you're kind of following it along and helping it in whatever direction is going to make the most sense. That's how I've, at least, approached most of my projects with Larry. It's trying to figure out what he's coming from, what reference he's making or what he wants the beer to do to you or to taste like and then take it to its final conclusion. April: Yeah, I think he might not know exactly what he wants visually. He may not have this grand idea, like “Oh I want it to look like this,” but he's got a general idea, and he's got a theme or something has sparked this idea from the beginning. So, it may be a song, it may be a piece of art, it may be whatever, something has inspired him to think of something to brew and then it's kind of our vision through talking to him. We go through our director and then through our manager and there's many, many, many meetings, and even just Larry showing up at our office and sitting down and saying "Hey, I thought about this." And then whole design goes in a different direction because he's had some other inspiration and I think it's just the closer you get to Larry the more you get to understand the way he thinks and then it helps you put the ideas together better, like Alex said we went through many iterations for Lampshade until we finally happened upon the perfect way of marketing this beer. Maddie: I love it. I think it's interesting because if you look at the majority of our labels, correct me if I'm wrong, are illustrations. Alex: Like 99% of them are almost all illustrations. April: Right, so this is really something unique, something new for us and I think even after Alex started working on it Larry came in with some old photographs for inspiration, so it was like OK we're all on the same page and everybody's got that box or that photo album full of old photographs. Right then it was like, OK we know we're on the right track. Maddie: It's different from what we normally do, but it's still so on brand and it's still so Bell's Brewery even though it is a different medium than we generally tend to use. Alex: And for Larry sometimes he's coming from a like "I've listened to this song that I want to make a reference to and all heads my age, all the music heads will get my reference." But sometimes it's coming from "I want to do a style" Side Yard is a really good example. We have been growing this hop yard for three years now? Maddie: Mm-hmm Alex: To our listeners, I don't know if you're aware, but hop yards take years to grow before they start putting out really good quality hops in the scale that you need to make anything out of them. Their vines just need to get long enough, so we hadn't really been able to do anything with it except grow it and learn more about the strains that we're growing. And now finally it's ready and Larry looks out the window and sees these hop cones growing and he says, "I want to do a harvest ale. I want to do a wet hopped harvest ale." Which we don't do very often, wet hopping is kind of a pain in the butt, it's a difficult thing to get right and you have to do it and sell it instantaneously because nothing sticks around. Its shelf life is very, very low. So, he decided he wanted to do this and then he comes to us and says, "I want to do a beer in this style." And we kind of have to take it from there. Lampshade started very similarly I wanted to make it really strong, delicious IPA that's easy drinking because I want you to accidentally drink a couple and realize maybe I should have slowed down on that last one, now I've got a lampshade on my head. Maddie: Right, natural progression. Alex: There's a feeling or there's a tone or there's a thing that is frequently an inspiration for him not just, "The market is bending this way I want to do a sour," or "The market is bending this way I want to do a light session ale because that's what everybody is making right now." There's some measure of that, in our way we interact with our portfolio and we try to discover what our next thing is gonna be, but Larry's such an eccentric figure that so many of these ideas are coming out of his life and what he's been interacting with lately. Nick: Well, if you come down to the café too, you look around and you see all the artwork and all the various pieces of history up there and it starts to make sense where he's getting all of these references and where all of these things are coming from. Nick: Hoping to learn more about Bell's Brewery? Check out the action first hand with a tour of our Comstock or Downtown Kalamazoo locations. Tours are available Wednesdays through Sundays. Learn more about tour times and reserve your spot today at BellsBeer.com/tours Maddie: Alex, you worked on Arabicadabra, correct? That was your design? Alex: Yep, that's right. Maddie: So what was the process for creating that? Alex: I was working with Laura Bell primarily on that, but we knew that we wanted to make kind of a companion beer to Java Stout. A silky, delicious coffee beer with a kind of creamy texture to it. We had a couple different variations of this beer that we had as kind of beta beers down at the pub that were very successful and well regarded and we love coffee beers so we're like, let's package it we can have it as an alternate for Java Stout. Even years we'll do Java Stout, odd years we'll do whatever this beer is going to be. I think that other people who might be listening to this in the industry will not be surprised to hear me say one of the most difficult things to do in the craft beer industry in this stage of the lifespan of the industry is coming up with unique and interesting and suitable beer names. It is really, really hard. I, myself, have written at least a thousand names for beers for this company. I've gotten one of them made. Maddie: One. Which one was it? Alex: Deer Camp from our sister brewery (Upper Hand) up in the U.P. Maddie: Very cool. Alex: Surprisingly enough, it wasn't taken. That's the big problem is that the industry is so broad at this point, there's so many players in it that everybody is looking for the name that hasn't been trademarked or used yet so they just get scooped up. So, we struggled to find a good name for it. We knew we wanted it to talk about the darkness of the coffee, we wanted to make it mysterious and interesting, to be eye-catching. Andy Farrell who I think you guys talked to on a previous episode actually came up with the name along with Zeke Logan our downtown brewer. Over Abracadabra for a coffee beer that they were planning on making and heard that we were struggling to find a good name, lent it to us, I guess we took it and then it became what is the process of figuring out what this artwork is going to look like. So I did what I everybody calls mood boards. Basically, you define a few different creative directions that a design can go down and then you pull a bunch of colors and font and type treatments. Pieces of inspiration. Stuff that you find on the internet or in magazines or just examples of what this direction would look like and you build the collages of them and we bring those to our internal department, the managers of our department and ultimately to Larry Bell and say, here is what we are thinking as a direction, maybe there's three or four different directions. It seems to be a good number for him to review. Not too many, not too few. He'll point to one or two and then we go and we'll further develop those ideas, maybe we start by making some drawings. I did that for Arabica where I drew up... the mood board that was chosen was these 1930s magician posters; which are super, super cool, very full of personality and color. The mysteriousness worked with the coffee dark beer, the color palette of gold and dark brown worked with the coffee and the creaminess of it, so it just made sense. I did some drawings and put together some preparatory labels that Larry could see the direction that it was going and how far it was going before he could say, "Nevermind, I don't want this anymore," or "Yeah, this looks good. Let's keep going." We keep going and it goes into the final production phase where I paint digitally on a Wacom tablet, it's a big, black, thin iPad-without-a-screen looking thing with a stylus pencil and I can paint in Photoshop or a program called Painter. So, I spent a couple weeks painting out what came to be the final label before the final details are put in and the last production files are built. That goes again to Larry to make sure this is what he wants and this is how he has envisioned it. He liked the way it came out and so then it turns into the production side where you're making six-packs, you're making keg collars, labels. These all need to go through proof-reading. These all need to be reviewed with the vendor. Then there's a press check, there's proofs that have to be looked at for color and accuracy. So, once you get the final design figured out or even the concept there's still many, many, many steps to go after that. It's kind of the most fun part of the process, but it is maybe the most important because that's when mistakes get made. It's a long process, I mean, you include TTB which is the government organization that reviews this stuff, makes sure we're not putting weird illegal stuff on there or not including maybe some ingredients that we are going to use in the product that could be an allergen or something like that. They need a certain amount of time to review this stuff, our vendors need a certain amount of time to print this stuff. Cans, if we're doing a can you're adding three months for just the vendor to create specialized plates that then print these colors onto these rubber blankets which then apply them to the cans themselves. So, if you're saying I want to make a beer and I want to put it in a can, you're probably saying I want to put a beer in a can in like a year and a half. Nick: Wow, that's wild. Alex: Including talking to our distributors and all of the different accounts that are going to sell it. It's a really wide and broad process that has hundreds of players involved and it's actually pretty impressive though. The people that supervise us are able to steer that ship without there being massive problems every step of the way. April: Yeah, and sometimes we have the luxury of time and sometimes we don't because oftentimes Larry comes in and he's like, "hey, I've got this idea, and I'd really like to see this happen in several months, not a year, and it just kind of speeds up the whole process. And what we do is kind of in the middle of it because the brewers have to do their thing, so you have that whole front end. Then you've got us and then you've got the whole back end of it with printing and packaging and all of that so, as Alex said, the process probably should be very long, but sometimes we really have to compress it in order to hit the deadlines. Alex: And especially if you look at, this is a retail operation. We're creating a product and we're putting it out into the market, we're advertising it and then we're trying to sell it. If you look at say how Graham Crackers, for example, sells their product maybe they have some shaped Graham Crackers or there's a cinnamon one, but for the most part you have a product that they sell at a large scale, day in, day out. They're not putting a new Graham Cracker out every three weeks to every other month, you know? April: Wouldn't that be great though? Alex: Yeah. I mean, a man can dream, but let's be realistic. So, when you're not designing beer labels what do y'all do on the day to day? Unless your day to day is designing beer labels. April: It varies. We all perform a lot of functions for the company, so packaging is probably the high end of it and we've kind of come late to that game. We've only been doing that for the last couple of years, but I know from my own standpoint, I do a lot of support for the sales team, a lot of internal projects, but daily the jobs can vary greatly. You could have something as simple as internal documents or it could be as specific as working on packaging for a new brand, so it's really hard to pinpoint exactly like I do this one thing. No, we all do a hundred things and we do what's necessary every day. So, whatever needs to be done, we do it. Alex: Yeah, and to give you some examples, we have a culture of not doing a lot of traditional advertising that goes back 30 years. I think there might be a few instances of it, but... Nick: The accordion guy commercial. Alex: I wasn't going to say it because that'll enthuse people to maybe go search some YouTube and track it down, but it's pretty funny April: Yes, It's something alright. Maddie: Thank you to our guests April and Alex for sharing a glimpse into the Bell's Brewery creative department. I'm Maddie. Nick: And I'm Nick and you've been listening to The Shifty. Cheers.

HR... at the bar? In this episode of The Shifty, we spoke to two of our HR specialists -- Mike Fuerst and Carrie Yunker. Carrie is the director of HR at Bell’s, and has been with the company for 15 years. Mike has been with us for 18 years and is currently a training specialist. During the interview, we touch on the history of HR at Bell’s and how the company looked 20 years ago. Mike talks about his rock ‘n roll roots and Carrie talks about the early days, when the company belonged to “surley dudes”. The Shifty can be found on iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. We’re hoping this series will give you a fun look at Bell’s that you’ve never had before, and you might even learn a thing or two along the way. Transcript Carrie Yunker: And I'd never worked at a place where it was like, what do you mean you want me to shut it, you want your receptionist to go shut down your production facility? Okay. Maddie Parise: Hello everyone and welcome to The Shifty, the podcast where we share a post shift beer with Bell's employees and talk about what makes our job so cool. I'm Maddie. Nick Lancaster: And I'm Nick. And for this episode, we're talking HR at the bar. We sat down with training specialist, Mike Fuerst and director of human resources Carrie Yunker to learn more about the culture and history of Bell's. Maddie: Great. Awesome. So, if you guys want to tell us, why did you come into work today? Not all at once? Carrie: Well, Amie schedules me a lot of meetings. I have this lovely gal named Amie and she tells me where to go and where to be. But realistically, I sit in a lot of meetings. But regardless of that, I came into work today because I can make a difference when I'm in those meetings, realistically. We are working on some super cool projects and some really fun things that are going to make a big difference to, in particular the meetings I was in today had to do with safety and security, which is an important piece. And then I had sat in two different sort of what I would call sort of cultural meetings, meaning we're moving forward some projects and initiatives that will make a big difference to our culture. Mike Fuerst: Yeah, I mean I can certainly agree that the sense of making sure that Sarah sees me walking out of the door and heading into work is always good. But realistically, it's to be with my family and to be with my friends and contribute to this thing that I feel like I've had a small part in building over the last 20 years. So, it's a sense of responsibility, a sense of family, a sense of commitment. I think there's folks that get motivated by seeing a project come together and things come to fruition and that just gives you steam going into the next project. And so, a little bit of it is, the ball's rolling, and it's been rolling and the momentum is there and you just do. You just come in and you just do. Carrie: I would miss it. When I'm on vacation. I still miss work sometimes. Nick: I can agree with that. Carrie: Like what's going on there? Do they need something? Is everything okay? Maddie: I think that's rare to miss your job when you're on vacation. You don't find that often. Carrie: Yeah. I mean, not that I don't love my family and my time. Not that that's not needed honestly, but simply it doesn't feel like a job. Some days it does, some days are tough but it doesn't feel like a job the majority of the time that I'm coming in. It's like it's where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing. Mike: My guess is that's probably the norm from what you said Maddie about it's probably not common for people to miss their job when they're away. But to be honest, like I don't think I know anybody who doesn't read their email when they're on vacation and just kind of keeping tabs on it here. I think people just, they love it enough where like you're concerned not only out of a sense of staying connected, but just because you just flat out care. You want to know what's going on and you want to know what your friends are doing and what happened with that conversation when I left on Friday. Nick: Well it's kind of a kind of a good segue, Mike. You mentioned over the last 20 years. So how did you both get your start at Bell's? Mike: So I started, my old roommate, his name is Johnny Apollo was the packaging manager and at the time I was a working musician. Had rock and roll dreams, so every weekend going out and playing shows. So the money you got from Saturday night is gone by Monday and so need a day job kind of thing. And so there was actually a couple of years where I kind of said, hey Johnny, can you get me a job as a packager? And he kind of kept at arm's length because his point was like, well, we live together, we hang out together, I don't know if I want to see you at work all day too. But it just made sense after a while so he offered me a job and I started in as a packager. Washing kegs, that was my first job. Eight hours a day, washing Hoff-Stevens kegs for three or four days a week. It was really just very much as a reason to pay my bills. But there was also very much a sense of pride being associated with the brewery from Kalamazoo. I had a lot of friends who actually did work there at the time. So again, I felt like I was kind of joining a bunch of guys that I already knew and a bunch of folks that I had kind of had a good time with. I certainly in the back of my head absolutely had the notion that, well, if music doesn't kind of take me to where I want to be, this could be a job I could fall back on. Carrie: So I started at the brewery almost 15 years ago now, and I started as a temp job through a staffing agency. So, I was going to school for, Haworth College of Business here in town. I was looking for a part time job, something to be able to do while I was going to school. I got a phone call from the temp agency which isn't even in business anymore at the time and they were like, hey, we're looking for, and I had done a couple of assignments for them, hey, we're looking for somebody, the woman, I will never forget her saying to me, like, I need somebody who can go and answer phones and be like part time receptionist at a brewery, but you got to be able to work with a bunch of surly dudes, take a joke, have a strong backbone. Like they were very clear with me, like here's the environment that you're kind of walking into. I was like, oh, I can totally do that. And I'm still trying to do that. Maddie: So Carrie, you've been here for 15 years and Mike you said 20? Mike: 18. I like to stretch that out to 20. I think I'm close enough. Maddie: Yeah, you've earned it. Mike: We round up. Maddie: What were the early days like? How did that all look? Mike: So the early days for me were a little different because my early days were actually down here where we're at the Eccentric Café right now. The Comstock Brewery didn't exist at that point. So there was a couple of years where everything took place down here, other than obviously sales and the marketplace and whatnot. There was a nickname that it was “Larry's Home for Wayward Boys.” And so Carrie's description about kind of having to work with a bunch of surly guys, that was kind of the environment. There weren't any female brewers, there weren't any female production employees. There was a few kind of over the years, early in the day, some strong brave women that decided to give it a try. It was kind of a little bit of a male-dominated kind of locker room environment to some degree. That certainly wasn't the thing that attracted me and I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but there got to a point where it was kind of, okay, I'm just going to kind of keep my head down and try to do a good job and kind of joke along a little bit here and there. Sometimes the environment was a little challenging as far as that goes. But that aside, there was very much also a sense of camaraderie and teamwork and you help each other out. You showed up in the morning and you stayed until the day was done. There wasn't like nine to five kind of thing. There were certainly schedules and shifts by the time I came on board in ‘99 but there was a sense that like you had to stay and get the work done and that was just how it was. But at the same time, because you're kind of having fun along the way, it really wasn't a chore. It wasn't difficult. The other thing that was kind of interesting in those early days back down here was you had to kind of learn how to work with the things that you had. You didn't have resources to buy some fancy new piece of equipment every other month. So you kind of had to accomplish things by ingenuity and repurposing things and duct tape. There was a little bit of a, not wild, wild west, I don't want to make it seem like it was a complete free for all. It was just that there was a sense that like we, it wasn't a challenge, it was an opportunity. It wasn't like we have to figure this thing out. It was we get to figure this thing out. It was really much like you get to learn, you get to grow. Then even moving out into Comstock, my former boss, John Mallett, really very much empowered packagers and maintenance to own what you're doing and figure it out and learn and try, maybe there's a little bit of trial and error and hey, that didn't work the first time but hey, it worked the second time. Why? Let's figure it out. Let's talk about it. Certainly, maintenance being a very important part of keeping any industrial manufacturing system going, we went in lean and there was not like a huge maintenance department to start and that was on purpose because maintenance folks are usually highly skilled, highly paid. And so, if you can get away with having your operators get a little smarter and understand the equipment and the processes, then you don't have to have this fleet of highly skilled maintenance operators. From the beginning, there was a very much a sense of let's empower and educate as best we can to give the people that are operating the equipment the greatest sense of understanding and ownership. Then that also contributes to that teamwork atmosphere and that support atmosphere of like how you are working together as a team, as an organization, as a department and as a company. Carrie: Some of my early memories are, I was I think employee number 50. And I started right at the time when we were opening the Comstock Brewery. So I started right at that point where we were starting to brew beer. We had one shift of packaging. We had a couple of shifts of brewers at that point. But you knew every single individual person's name. You spent time with them outside of work. We had fun together and there was always this sense of, if there's a higher road to take, we're going to take it. So I remember being a really small brewery and doing right things as it related to government compliance, were we doing the labels right, were we doing, some of the early work I did was like entering the handwritten brew logs for example and a lot of the tank fermentation work and like gathering that data to make sure that when we did our inventory the end of the month, our taxes were paid correctly. That spirit still lives now. Like if there's a higher road, we're going to take it. If we can do something with integrity, we will. I think that that has, that was really what kept me in some ways. Kept me interested is. And there was always a new challenge. There was this like, to Mike's point of like we get to solve this problem, there was always something new and interesting as well in all the different aspects of our business, whether it's a new beer or a new process, and I just felt like sort of the group of folks that was there at that time when I first started was eager to learn and eager to be the best. We had to figure that out on our own.I think that that is, you know, we still have some of those fun home grown systems, and I think, you know, it was the same, but we were still at a place where started in October and in December, I remember getting a phone call. It was on a Wednesday in December, first week of December. It was Larry and he was like, "Hi Carrie." I was like, "Hi." And he goes, "I need you to shut it down." And I was like, "What?" He goes, "I want you to shut it down. Everybody has to get down here to the pub. It's pre-Eccentric Brew day. Shut the brewery down." No thought or care for packaging or money or distributors, trucks coming or whatever the case may be. It was simply just like we all belong together. We all belong together right now. We should be down here. Again, I still feel like Skills Week to me is a bit of a kind of commemoration to that sort of spirit, right? It's like, we all belong together, we all do this together. There were some people already down here drinking beer and Bloody Mary's, which was a highly touted thing that happened Eccentric Brew Day. It was like, no, I want everybody else down here too. And I'd never worked at a place where it was like, what do you mean you want me to shut it, you want your receptionist to go shut down your production facility? Okay. Maddie: Can't get enough of Bell's Brewery? Find us on social media. Get the latest announcements and sneak peeks and whatever feed you'd like to scroll through best. Nick: So how do you do HR at a brewery? Carrie: There's a lot of a gray area. Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously like we get beer benefits. It's like how do you tackle that sort of issue? Carrie: So I have always been and will continue to be the kind of person who wants us to have sort of policies, if you will, or practices that trust someone and assume positive intention. So I think that that's incredibly important. We could rule the hell out of everything if we wanted to. When I first started and took over, sort of like when I became the ultimate kind of tip of the spear, if you will, for HR, the first thing I did was tear apart our handbook. First thing I did. First thing I did because it said over 100 times in there, “up to” and “including termination,” it was written by an attorney, it didn't feel like us. And I wanted us to have work rules that were reflective of what we were actually doing and what we actually respected. What I actually expected of everybody is to be responsible, which we define that and one of our values. But realistically, I expected that way back then. And everyone else expected that of each other too. We were able to hold each other accountable. I think that we can do that and still have fun. In fact, one of the projects I'm working on right now, one of the meetings I had today, very much related to sort of beer benefits, making sure that that is looked at in the right way. So what are we doing for our off shifters? What are we doing for our folks who, when the pub's closed for example? What's the spirit of that shifty? So those kinds of things still live on. I think it's just got to be, you trust until someone proves you wrong. And when they prove you wrong, we know what our work rules are and then we take action. We can't be afraid to do that. Mike: One thing I've always appreciated about this place and this may just be me in my head, but the way that I've tried to view it is this is, and this is going to get kind of broad and wide and maybe a little lofty, but I feel like this is our chance as a society and as our culture as a people and as humans on the planet to do the right thing. I think anybody who's mindful of history in any way and understands what manufacturing and what labor looked like 200 years ago versus 100 years ago versus 50 years ago, and I'm not going to quote him properly, but Dr King said something along the lines of the arc to freedom and justice is long but it's always pointing in the right direction. It's something along those lines. And again, I feel like manufacturing and jobs and how workers and employees and employees interact, there was a point in time in our country's history in our planet's history and a lot of the places that are still exist on this day where it's just not done right, you're not doing the right way. I feel like there's an altruistic notion that we can try and aspire to do the right thing, aspire to build the building in the right way, to put policies in the right way. I feel strongly that we have to lead, we have to show the example of how manufacturing can be profitable and at the same time mindful of what the people at the bottom are doing and what the people at the bottom, the folks that are kind of grinding away from the day to day, the operator level, how it impacts them. Because I think for too long in our society, especially in America, the profits and the CEOs and the folks who are on the board, it's all about protecting that profitability. And if you're doing that, then it'll trickle down, it's like, okay, I kind of see what you're saying. But I would much rather provide and develop a system that takes into account the folks at the bottom and the folks in the middle and the folks at the top, because we all have to be in those relative positions. At some point, you know, in order to have a top, you got to have a bottom. In order to have a bottom, you got to have a top. But if the people at the top aren't respecting and supporting the people at the bottom, then the foundation crumbles and it doesn't work. So again, I feel strongly that we have this opportunity here to show the rest of Kalamazoo and the rest of Michigan and the rest of the country and the rest of the planet, here's how you can be a profitable business and be respectful and mindful of the people that are developing and contributing at all levels. I really feel strongly about that, that we have this opportunity. And I really try and come into work every day to tell myself that. And again, it sounds a little lofty, it sounds a little fruity but it's true. Because if we're not doing it, who is? And if we don't do it now, when? Nick: So, you mentioned earlier that you were a musician. You were trying to do the rock and roll thing. I kind of have a funny story about that. I knew that because I go to school for audio stuff that I know John, John Compos. When I was just out of high school, I was working at a grocery store. One of my former teachers came through the line. I was a cashier at the time. I mentioned that I was moving to Kalamazoo to go to school for like music, that kind of stuff. And he mentioned, oh yeah, I used to live in Kalamazoo. I used to live across the street from this band that used to rehearse called Knee Deep Shag. And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. I swear to God, a few days later, I would buy music at the secondhand store in Hastings, that's where. I'm from and I found Good Disguise by Knee Deep Shag for like $5 in a CD bin. I listened to it and I was like, I love this. I got super into it. And then, it was sort of like this weird sort of starstruck moment when I learned that you played bass in Knee Deep Shag. I have it, I'm moving soon so all my CDs are packed away. But I was almost like going to do that as a gag on the show to like pull out my copy and have you autograph it. That's just like a funny anecdote that I had that I was amazed to just weird things that come together like that. Mike: Yeah, it's a small world man. I'm flattered. It might've been on Westnedge I would guess because there was a point where Knee Deep Shag, well, their practice room was in Matt Gross, the lead singer's apartment on Westnedge or I'm not sure where your friend lived. Nick: Yeah, yeah. Carrie: You ever listen to Mike play music, you wonder, how did we get so lucky to have him training people and packaging, you know, like seriously, You're just like- Nick: I was here for that reunion show back in February. I was absolutely here for that. Carrie: Absolutely. Absolutely. Mike: Well, again, the music thing is my passion, but I can't express how lucky I was to have realized early enough that hey, this Bell's thing, this could really go somewhere and this could be a great job. So really, to be perfectly honest, as much as I would love to be 100 percent musically supported financially and whatnot, I don't think I'd be the same person had I not spent the last 18 years working here. I think that the lessons I've learned and the teamwork and certainly the management skills and some of the coaching that I've developed over the years of being a department head for a little while have also improved my ability to function as a musician and work within a band, which is usually kind of like a marriage between four people or five people or how many are in the group. Just the politics of working inside that system has been improved by my time at Bell's as well. As much as I would love to just play music, I certainly, again, I feel like I wouldn't be the same person had I not had the life experience that I gained from working at Bell's. Maddie: So, come work at Bell's if you want to be a musician. Carrie: We have a lot of them, a lot of incredible musicians. Nick: Well, I think that's going to do it for us. Thanks to you both for sitting down and taking part in this little experiment that we're doing. Mike: No, actually we're going to keep going. So, the next ... Nick: Thank you to Mike and Carrie for sharing a drink and some great stories with us. I'm Nick. Maddie: And I'm Maddie. And you've been listening to The Shifty. Cheers.

In our fourth episode, we got up at the crack of dawn to speak with a few of our third shift packagers. Because we distribute so much beer around the country, we need to be brewing 24 hours a day. Our packagers come in at 10 p.m. and typically work until 7 a.m. We talked with Josh Seman, Brenden Wimes, and DeMeyer White about what a day-to-day for them looks like, and the multiple roles they fill as they work throughout the night. The Shifty can be found on iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. We’re hoping this series will give you a fun look at Bell’s that you’ve never had before, and you might even learn a thing or two along the way.   Transcript DeMeyer White: I heard of morale, everybody here would be like oh the morale's down we need to figure out something to do about morale but I worked there before morale was payday, like. Oh you don't feel good today? You're fired. Nick Lancaster: For this special episode of the Shifty, we tried something a little different. At Bell's, we work around the clock. We have people brewing beer, packaging and filling kegs throughout the night. We sat down and spoke to Josh Seman, DeMeyer White, and Brenden Wimes, three of our third shift employees. Maddie Parise: At six a.m the number of employees on the campus is scarce. Save for the third shift packagers and some of our housekeeping staff whom you hear vacuuming in the background throughout the episode, it’s pretty quiet. I'm Maddie. Nick: And I'm Nick, and today we're diving into the work life of third-shift packagers at Bell's Brewery. Maddie: A day or night in the life of a third shift employee can vary greatly. Brenden gave us a brief rundown of how a shift starts. Brenden Wimes: What we do is, we come in around 9:45, we'll check in, go through our shift change meeting with second shift, that can take anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes, by that time they should be off the floor or they'll wait for us to get on the floor then leave. After that, we'll actually do like a five minute stretching period and then we'll get on with our day. Nick: And then it's off to work. We asked DeMeyer, Josh and Brenden what exactly it was that they did and they told us that their routine after the meeting and stretching could change quite a bit. Josh Seman: The shift leader normally sets us up with different positions, like different machines to run or put you on the line so when you come out you'll do handoff with the last shift, say like any issues that are going around, what to look out for, kind of how far they're in and everything like that and they you'll go off. So you'll split between bottling, cardboard, depal, the filler, the labeler. It's different on each line, but everyone kind of has their own position and you run that for the day. Sometimes you rotate depending on the shift or what line you're on. The keg line rotates every two hours. With bottling, a lot of times you'll stay in the same spot all day and then you'll rotate weekly and go on to learn a new position. People are training and you go to a new spot and you kind of get rotated through that way. Maddie: They wear a lot of different hats while on shift. Some days they have to manage forklifts. Others, the keg line. Brenden: With third shift, there is significantly less people around the building so it kind of makes it hard for any line on third shift to get as much support as they would throughout the day. None of us on third shift have shipping or handling to help us run forklifts at night so that kind of lies on us. So I guess we have a little more workload and a little more job specifications. Josh: You have more work load but you also have a little more freedom I feel like on third shift. You don't have as many people around and tours coming through or driving a forklift and worry about people that don't know the building. You don't have to worry about as much traffic so when you're, there's a lot of stuff that you are able to do more and drive forklifts is an example or traffic around the building but you have way less going on to do it so it is easier and if you have to go down and get something normally not as big of a deal. There's not as many people in the way. Say the ramp, you don't have three lines running at the same time, shipping, sending out sixty trucks a week or whatever and then all their guys, people coming through and tours. A lot of stuff is easier that way and everybody knows each other on third shift because there is significantly less people so you have a better comradery across the line. You feel like you know all the lines. Nick: Another issue the team faces is trouble shooting the machinery of the new bottling hall. DeMeyer: I'd say since we have the bottling hall is fairly new, its very different from the old bottling hall. It's a lot more mechanical. It has a lot more services. It's a lot more technical I'd say. It's harder to learn as far as keeping it running and our maintenance is new to it so I think that's the most challenging part, is us getting to know our machines and getting them to perform like we want them to perform. Maddie: Can't get enough of Bell's brewery? Find us on social media. Get the latest announcements and sneak peaks in whichever feeds you like to scroll through best. The three of them also mentioned the importance of the sense of camrodery that they have with each other and their coworkers. DeMeyer: I come to work because I have family to take care of but I also don't mind coming to work. I have a bunch of guys that I work with that I enjoy working with every day. We all have the same goals, to come in and get the job done, run beer. We know we have a great product to sell. I like working with my friends every day. It's not almost like work all the times. Sometimes you get to go to work and you get to hang out with guys you get to hang out with every day. So like, me and these guys we hang out even when we're not. So it's not always just work. It's a very family-oriented place to come to. Nick: The culture of Bell's also plays a big role in what's enjoyable for the team about their job. Josh: A lot of people who work at Bell's, want to work for a brewery and want to do that specifically. You get that vibe that people want to be here, that they want to do this. To me a lot of that I've seen that I have never had at a different work before something like people actually, I know people literally have gotten jobs here on purpose, they've always wanted to get a job at a brewery and at Bell's specifically and that something you don't see at other places. You get that feel from people. They enjoy it. They love being here, they love the beer, they love everything about the beer and the process of making it and making it and packaging it and all that. I feel like it is very unique. DeMeyer: I'm a little older than them guys so I've had lot more jobs, so I think what Larry and Laura did as far as setting up the family environment, I see people that I work at Bell's with, I might not even see them every day because I work third shift, but I might see them somewhere out and their like “Hey DeMeyer!” Everybody knows everybody. It’s so family oriented, it's like you're respected, appreciated and you know, their happy you here. Sometimes you have a job, sometimes you're just a number, you're just this person that you go and you work and you never even know the people you work next to, you never even talk to them. No one’s concerned about what's going on in your life besides work but get the work done. It's totally different here. It's been so hard getting used to that. You would think that it didn't exist but Bell's is so different as far as being respected and treated well at work. It's a great place to work. Maddie: The culture in comradery isn't the only thing that these three love about their jobs. They also appreciate the perks that come with being a Bell's employee. One of these perks is the reward of impacting someone’s life with the work you do. DeMeyer: People work hard all week, and you might have struggles this week, or you might have a great week. But when you're off work, and you get that six pack and you get that steak on the grill, you get to sit down and you pick up that beer and I can say, you know what, I got that for him. I got that for her. Days, her day where she gets to sit down and relax and have a cold beer. I like being a part of that. I like being a part of people’s good day and peoples bad day. Nick: Another perk is the employee benefits that the team enjoys. Josh: You go places and you get a beer and you look and see, oh I was actually on that shift that packaged that. DeMeyer: That's gonna be a great beer, I did that one. Josh: You did that one. You know its good and people are excited you work there and it's fun to talk about and go home and that's something you don't really see in other places. DeMeyer: I heard of morale like, oh the morale's down we need to figure out something to do for morale. I worked there before morale was payday. Oh you don't feel good today, well you're fired. So, it's a big difference between a lot of places. We get free beer, we get bonuses, and we get Christmas presents. And it's a good Christmas present. It's not just a Christmas present, but a good Christmas present. Brenden: The Christmas presents are amazing. DeMeyer: Awesome. Maddie: The work that is done while the rest of us are sleeping can often go unnoticed. As we enjoy good nights rest, people like DeMeyer, Brenden and Josh are packaging the beer we'll drink the next day. A process which they get a lot of enjoyment from as well. Nick: Thank you to our guest for staying up even later for this interview and for the work that they do at Bell's. I'm Nick. Maddie: And I'm Maddie. This has been a Shifty. Cheers.

In the previous episode of The Shifty, we discussed brewing with Andy Farrell and Karli Small from our Comstock facility. We also spoke to Lucia Baker about her experiences as a Project Engineer at the B1 location. Lucia gave us a great look at the mechanics of B1, which got us curious about the rest of what goes on there. Now,we’re giving you a brief look at the actual brewing that takes place in our original brewhouse. To do this, we spoke with Pat Tkacz and Chris Walsh about the brewing they do there. This episode details everything from the day-to-day operations to the differences in the Comstock and downtown breweries. You’ll even get to learn about Pat and Chris’ introductions to brewing; processes that involved both the Czech Republic and a Coach purse. The Shifty can be found on iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. We’re hoping this series will give you a fun look at Bell’s that you’ve never had before, and you might even learn a thing or two along the way.   Links Our current draft board Brewing Eccentric Ale 2015 Behind the scenes of Bell's barrel program Transcript Chris Walsh: In college, I didn't really drink beer much except for because beer pong existed. Nick Lancaster: Hello everyone, and welcome to a special episode of The Shifty. In the last episode we spoke to Lucia Baker about her wok in B1, and we thought we would follow that up with a little extra content for you. So if you haven't listened to that episode you should go back and catch up. I'm Nick. Maddie Parise: And I'm Maddie, and for this episode, we're showing you a deeper look at B1 itself through a conversation with some of the people who brew there. I guess a pretty simple question, Why did you guys come into work today? Pat Tkacz: I came into work today, first and foremost, because I love beer, and I was a fan of Bell's Beer long before I worked here. Nick: That's sour beer specialist, Pat Tkacz. Pat: Getting to be the guy, or one of the guys, that makes the beer that I used to drink as a fan really gives me a reason to wake up in the morning. I mean I'm excited every morning when I get here at 6. I know most people aren't excited to get up that early, but I'm really ready and rearing to go, looking at my task board, figuring out what needs to be done for the day. That's what keeps me coming back. Knowing that the beer needs love and that the people need beer. I got into brewing because my girlfriend at the time, now my fiancee, wanted a Coach purse for Christmas. I discovered how much Coach purses cost, and it was about the same amount as a home brew kit, which I had been eyeing up until that point. Little negotiation tactics on my hand I said “I'll get you the Coach purse if you'll get me the home brewing equipment,” and really the rest is history. The first beer that I brewed was a clone of Two Hearted Ale. A beer that I still hold near and dear to my heart. I've never looked back. I've probably brewed 75 batches at home and a couple thousand batches here at work. Maddie: This is brewer Chris Walsh. Chris: The reason why I'd be here is, I got started.. In college I didn't really drink beer much except because beer pong existed. It's something competitive to do, but I always really hated every macro-lager and all my friends Natural Lights and all the beer we drank back then. Then I had one of my uncle's home brews right before I went to a trip to Czech Republic and I was always under the assumption that from the, I think it was Keystone Light commercials that had the bitter beer face, that anything bitter is just a no-no in beer. I went to Czech Republic and just drank their Pilsners and discovered what the original Pilsners is supposed to taste like. A 30 IBU - 40 IBU beer and how it balanced everything is just magical to me. That is the week I came back from that trip with my uncle, we got right on him teaching me how to home brew. I've been a fan of Bell's since like the week I got into craft beer. I woke up one morning at the house I had soon after, or when I was in college, from a party the night before there was ah Oberon bottle sitting next to me, I had no idea what it was. So I cracked into that, and that would have been my first exposure into American Craft Beer. I been working here for about four years, and it's exciting every day to come in and try to troubleshoot and try to figure out what we need to do to put out quality beer. Maddie: That sounds like a real magical experience. Chris: It's pretty awesome. Nick: What does the average day look like for you guys? Chris: It varies quite a bit. Being down here, we do a few more things than you'd expect in the production facility. We keg our own beer, we do our own inventory, we file all of our paperwork. Pat: We do all the hot and cold side work to beer. So we are brewers, the cellar men, the packagers. We're the inventory people like he said. Chris: Yup. Pat: Occasionally we are housekeepers. Nick: It sounds like from what we've talked to with Andy and Karli and Lucia about what goes on at Comstock; it sounds like what you guys are doing is a lot more hands on. You basically see through everything like hand putting in everything, and then just the whole processes. It's not automated. Pat: No, there's nothing automated about what we do. The only computer program we use is called Excel. Maybe you've heard of it? Maddie: That's that new thing from Microsoft, right? Pat: Correct, it's new from Microsoft, a spreadsheet management software. Nick: Its like a calculator you can type into. Pat: Yes, correct. Pat: I like to use the analog digital comparison. I tell people, Downtown is analog, Comstock is digital and neither one is better than the other. We just- Nick: They function differently. Pat: Yeah, they function different, exactly. Nick: Huh, I like that. That's a good way to put it. Pat: And I actually mean analog literally. Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pat: We have analog flow meters. We have analog instruments out there. We have some digital, so I guess I'm cheating a little. Chris: You've even got the vintage gear for the analog. It's like.. Pat: Yup, we really do. Maddie: So you're working at a different system than there is at Comstock, so in that nature, how often are there problems that come up that you need to solve, that you weren't expecting? Pat: I'm not going to call them problems, I will call them- Chris: Learning experiences.. Pat: Learning experiences. Idiosyncrasies. I would say that a day without a idiosyncrasy at B1 is odd. Chris: Yeah. Pat: I'm not sure if Chris would agree. Sounds like it though Chris: Little problems sneaking up from time to time, and as time goes on, you figure out how to manage dealing with those. But with everything being analog, you're going to knock out or going to use hot water through a flow meter where the dial's just jiggling back and forth. You might need to smack it with your finger a little bit; put it in its place and figure out how to get everything solved on the day to day. Nick: Right, so- Pat: It's a lot loser. We're cowboys. Nick: Taming the wild west of brewing downtown. Pat: Definitely. Nick: So what's the most challenging part of what you have to do downtown? Unless you already answered that. Pat: It's funny, it's not brewing related. Honestly, driving a forklift in the cellar in B1, is one of the scariest and hardest things I've ever had to do at any job ever, and I think Chris would corroborate that. Chris: Yeah, it could be pretty scary. I mean the ceilings aren't super high, trying to move multiple stocks of- Pat: Loaded barrels. Chris: Couple thousand pounds of beer that if you successfully rack out of it, your gonna get a couple thousand dollars worth of profit. And the fear of dropping those, and the safety hazard- Nick: Right. Maddie: How often do you have to do that? Chris: About a couple times a month maybe. Pat: Couple times a month. We move barrels around, more lately because of construction, so we're doing a lot of moving while the three barrel is being built. Chris: For sure. Pat: Yeah, a couple times a month on average; as few times as possible really. Maddie: Yeah Nick: Interesting. Maddie: So the other side of that is most challenging; what is the most rewarding thing about what you do? Pat: Oh that's easy. Watching people enjoy the beer that you made; honestly the best feeling in the world to me is watching somebody sit and enjoy a beer. That's the ultimate payoff for me. Chris: Yeah. Definitely the same answer for me. If you are down at the pub and you overhear somebody saying their enjoying a L’appel du Vide, or a Downtowner, or any of Bell's beers especially, but if it came from our hands, it's like you turn around and do a Tiger Woods fist pump real quick. Maddie: Yeah, we had a conversation similar to this with Lucia about how it's always neat to see the work that you've put in actually has actual.. Pat: Worth Maddie: Yeah, worth. You can actually see what you've done and how cool it is. Nick: Right, and of course I mentioned Roundhouse, which is my favorite beer that we make, but B1 Roundhouse, you can't top it.. Chris: Yeah. Nick: Like you mentioned Downtowner; I love that beer too. We have a lot of beers that you can get everywhere mostly. Like in Michigan, you can get most of our portfolio, but I feel like some of the magic is coming downtown, and seeing that huge draftboard, and being like “I didn't even know that they made that,” or like that variety of beer. Then you look at the little Eccentric Man and then it's like “okay, well it was brewed downtown.” Pat: Yeah, it's pretty awesome. One of my favorite things I've heard customers say when they get here, in the vein of what you're talking about and perhaps I pay more attention to this because I'm the sour beer guy, but I hear people say "Oh Bell's makes sour beer. I didn't even know that." And they don't get to try them until they come down here at the pub, and that to me, of course being sour beer guy again, is just great to hear. Maddie: So you're sour beer guy. Is sour beer your favorite beer? Pat: Definitely my favorite beer to brew and my favorite beer to drink by far. Maddie: Chris what's your favorite beer? Chris: Oh that rotates. I would say that ever since I came down here, this guy got me a lot more into the sour's and I mean favorite to drink and favorite to produce is definitely a fruity sour or heavily dry hops, hoppy beer, IPA or I mean.. Nick: Awesome. Alright, I think that's really all we had for you today. Thanks for coming on and talking to us about what you guys do down at B1. Chris: Our pleasure. Nick: It's really important I think, so I'm glad you guys could make it out. Pat: Thanks for thinking we are interesting enough to interview. Nick: We hope you've enjoyed this bonus conversation with Pat and Chris, and have a better understanding of what goes down on the day to day to be one.

In the second episode of “The Shifty,” we discuss the brewing process with some of the folks who oversee it. First, we speak to Andy Farrell, brewing innovation manager at Bell’s, and Karli Small, brewing manager. They give us a break down of their day to day, and how their work relates to the rest of the company. Lucia Baker, a project engineer for the new pilot system being installed at Brewery 1 (or B1, as we like to call it). The Shifty can be found on iTunes, Google Play and Spotify. We’re hoping this series will give you a fun look at Bell’s that you’ve never had before, and you might even learn a thing or two along the way. Links New Pilot Breweries To Continue Bell's Innovation and Experimentation Transcript Karli Small: But I think the thing that gets me to work is the team, so it’s lovely to hang out with everybody all day and talk about beer. Andy Farrell: Kinda made me sound like an asshole Karli. Maddie Parise: Hello, and welcome to the Shifty. The show where we share our post shift beer with Bell's employees and talk about their experiences with the brewery. I'm Maddie Parise. Nick Lancaster: I'm Nick Lancaster. Today we're talking about all things related to brewing. First we're going to talk to brewing innovation manager, Andy Farrell, and brewing manager, Karli Small, about their experiences at the Comstock location. Maddie: So, why did you come into work today? Andy: That's an interesting question, I guess first and foremost my boss' expectation is that I would be at work today, also I work every day. So... It's just part of what I do and I came in certainly with the mindset that I was going to accomplish certain tasks and be productive. I guess that's why... Karli over to you. Karli: I will say healthy expectation, but I think the thing that gets me to work is the team, so it’s lovely to hang out with everybody all day and talk about beer. Nick: Excellent. Andy: Kinda made me sound like an asshole Karli. Karli: Good cop. Bad cop. That’s how this works, we've done this before. We mix it up every now and then. Andy: That's alright. Nick: So for our audience, the people that are listening to this, I guess just give us a brief, or as brief as you want to, explanation of, I guess, day to day operations of what you guys do down out Comstock. Andy: Boy oh boy. Karli: Well... Andy: So my responsibilities tend to be varied, you know a lot of what I do day to day, first of all I have responsibilities in Comstock like I do have some responsibilities down at the original brewing location as well, so the brewing manager there, Zeke, reports up through my group. He's certainly autonomous, in fact I was just down here for a meeting with him. I have a weekly meeting with him every week, so I spend some time down here. Day and day on Comstock I mean it depends ... We do a fair amount of ... My job is that of a lot of communicating, making sure I'm on the same page with variety of different teams. Recently have been commissioning a pilot brewery, so that certainly has been taking up a fair amount of my time working with I have a small team out at the other brewery as well that I work on with that and- Maddie: Could you explain the pilot brewery? A little bit for people who don't know what that is. Andy: Sure. Yeah. So we recently purchased and installed a new brewing system. A new brew house, which is a 15 hectoliters, so it's about 13 barrels, so about a quarter of the size of 50 barrel brew house that we have in Comstock. The idea of this pilot brewery that, there, there's a few ideas. Certainly, one of the ideas is for, you know, with new product development, the ability to scale recipes. So we've put in from a mechanical standpoint and an equipment standpoint, the automation we put in, um, equipment that very much parallels the equipment in the larger brew houses on Comstock. So the idea will be, you know, scalable new products as well as optimization current brand portfolio. Also some research and development projects as well. Maddie: Cool. Um, so Karli, what is it that you do everyday? Karli: So I'm the brewing manager. I'm based out at Comstock and so that means I get to hang out with all the brewers being brewers, assistant brewers, technical brewers, and then you've got brewing personnel manager as well. So my main responsibilities I guess is making sure that we deliver beer to our packaging department. So we get to do a lot of seasonal releases and get them out the door on time and within great quality, um, but we also do a fair amount of meetings on a daily basis. Andy: For sure. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of communication. Karli: Yeah. It's amazing- a Andy: Amongst disparate groups to be sure. Karli: Yeah. So, so to get all these things done. You have to spend a lot of time in meetings talking to everyone about getting these things done. Maddie: Yeah. So what is the history both of you have with brewing? Andy: Sure. So, so my history is solely at this brewery actually, so I started working here in 2000. I started here as a 22 year old, came in at an entry level position working in the packaging department. I mean I was a keg washer and worked my way up through a number, you know, obviously I've been here going on 18 years now, just about 18 years. I've worked, you know, throughout the brewery. Spent about a year and a half in packaging, worked in fermentation for a number of years, worked my way into brewing and then ultimately to brew house manager, which is a position that no longer exists in the company as well as, now what was that one job I had called process improvement manager, you remember that? And that was when you came in, um, head brewer. And so my role is of sort of evolved into, into where I currently sit, which is brewing innovation manager. I guess I should've said what my job was. I suck at podcast. Sorry. Nick: It's all good. It's all good. Maddie: We all know who you are. You're a big deal, right? Andy: Right. What about you Karli? What's your history? Karli: So I started into the brewing industry, as a sensory scientist. So before that I was a flavor scientist for a flavor house. So I was in Australia working for a brewery called Western Brewery and started doing their sensory panel and then rotated all through the lab roles, so microbiologist, shift chemist, data analysts and all that stuff. Then I got pretty excited by brewing. So I started doing some ongoing studies and then rotated through into packaging for a little bit as a leader, I really wanted to get back into the brewing side of things. So did brewing team leader and then technical brewer and then eventually decide, decided to make the move to the US and convinced Bell's Brewery to hire me. I've had a couple of roles here. I started off being a project coordinator, which is essentially whatever projects, things that are happening at the time, no job description there and worked with the engineers on process support and the tech brewers. And then now is, my role as Brewing Manager, which is by far my favorite role. Maddie: I'm just curious, what are the main differences between working in a brewery in Australia and working in a brewery in America? Is it really that different? Karli: Americans talk funny. Yes and no. So the brewery was, it was a larger brewery I think it's more like the company structure less than the actual differences in the breweries. So that was more of a corporate structure and then coming over here is like Bell's brewery. He's just a really big craft brewery. So the technologies are a little bit different. The systems and the procedures are a bit different, but mainly it's the culture stuff like Australians and Americans are very different apparently. Maddie: Karli later added that when she moved to the US, she was amazed by how experimental US craft breweries and their techniques are. She said the diverse ingredients and innovative practices at Bell’s were part of why she made the move from Australia. Nick: What does it take to keep a such a large operation running? Because I understand like the history, a little bit of the history of Bell's, like from the beginning to where we are now, I would imagine it's a little easier than it was back in the day or maybe not. I don't know. Andy: So that's an interesting question. I'm sure we both have have opinions. So I think if you look at historically that what it takes to keep a place like this running is, and this is true today, there's a term that's used in manufacturing, it's called constant improvement, there has always been a interest in getting better here. Always. As the brewery gained success, the money has always been reinvested into the brewery and into getting better. So I think that staying open and I'm recognizing where your opportunities are and reinvesting in the brewery from a technology standpoint, from bringing in personnel, people like Karli, from the outside who can lend their expertise to help us get better as well as, you know, the most important thing is keeping people happy and keeping it a great place to work. You know, in a lot of ways I think. Karli: Yeah, I think the most keeping the brewery running is we're pretty lucky to have quite an engaged team. So I'm very proud of the brewing department in keeping everything running. I always know that they always do their best job making sure that the quality's there that we'll work together. So I think we need, it's up to us to set them up for success so they know the vision, the intent, the plan, and then off we go and deliver it. So certainly with so many people now we need like good systems and communication, which is always something that we always try to get better. Nick: Hoping to learn more about Bell's brewery? Check out the action firsthand with a tour at our Comstock or downtown Kalamazoo locations. Tours are available Wednesdays through Sundays. Learn more about tour times, and reserve your spot today at bellsbeer.com/tours. Maddie: Comstock isn't the only place that we do our brewing. Bell's Brewery began downtown at B1. A brewery we sat down with project engineer, Lucia Baker, to learn more about. Nick: So. Okay. Real quick. What is for our, for our audience is B1 One because I think as employees we say one and we just sort of know what that is, but I think to maybe the common person. What is B1? Lucia Baker: Yeah. So B2 is just the nickname a brewing one for the original brewing site which is in the downtown brewery. So that's currently where are 15 barrel system lives that we brew on for our beers at the Eccentric Cafe and we are adding a really cool new three barrel system that will live on the same brewing flat form, that the 15 barrel system exists on now. Maddie: So what exactly do you do for B1? Lucia: So it's engineering support. It's talking to the breweries out there and asking what they need, figuring out a game plan for how we're going to get that built or designed and then stepping them through a project management process, getting plans put together for all the components we'll need, all the people we'll need involved, getting a budget put together and then like, kind of setting out a timeline for the execution of the different phases of our project Nick: I guess just I guess in some of, somewhat of a broader sense, do you know, like give us a little history rundown of B1 if you don't mind, if that's possible. Lucia: I knew the general timeline of it that it was the original brewing site for the brewery. I was told it was like an old garage like repair shop and like a plumbing supply store back in the day. Then eventually when Larry was graduating from the 15 gallon soup kettle up to an actual brewing system, that was the location that it lived in and yeah, it's a served us pretty well since then and we have a 15 barrel that still lives out there, and there used to be a few 30 barrel components when we were brewing all of our production beers out of that space. Maddie: So what do you think is B1's role in the overall culture of Bell's and just the idea of keeping true to our spirit of innovation? Lucia: I'd say a pretty critical component. It's very much brewing to the true style of the original brewing that was done. Like it's still very old school out there, which is cool. It's a very classic brewing, I think is a good way to put it. And there's a lot of room for versatility. There's a lot of room for cool creativity in the beers that we're putting out and you can see it on the tap out in the Eccentric Cafe. We've got the little indicator, the Eccentric Guy. Hey, this was brewed in our 15 barrel system right in the back room. Nick: Right. And I feel like that sort of gets to the essence of home brewing to, cause, it's basically, I mean it basically is home brewing but with, you know, more better equipment, but it's the home brewing ethos where it's like, Hey, I want to make something, you know, I want to try this, I want to try it out. And it's like you've got a small enough batch like system where you know, you can try things out and if it doesn't shake out then I guess it doesn't. But it's,, I feel like there's something special about being able to drink something that was brewed, you know, downtown on the original system. Maddie: Yeah. It's, it's cool that we have so many beers that are so popular and we know are going to do well, but then we're still taking the time to create new products. Lucia: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. It's a, it's a cool homage to the home brewing community that Larry fostered a dog the whole time he's been here and even still with the home brewing equipment we have in the store and yeah, it's a cool, I think tip of the hat to that tradition and it's, it's great for the public to get, to also have the opportunity to try like one off, like, Oh wow, like I'm may never have this again, but it might be really good and there's something kind of fun about that. Like, oh cool. That was like a fun thing to try. And maybe we'll expose you to something you never would have tried otherwise. It'd be like, that looks wacky and fun. I've never had one of those before, which is really cool. And then you may stumble onto something that people just really vibe with and then it becomes a new town favorite or a new employee favorite and then maybe you're going to try some variations off of that style, which is pretty cool. Nick: You can say Roundhouse. It's okay. Lucia: It's so true. I didn't, I didn't want to name it but Roundhouse is a great example of that. Like it's, it's a cult classic among employees and like, I can't say enough good things about that beer. It's one of my favorites that we make. Really outstanding brew. Nick: I love whenever roundhouse from B1 is on tap downtown. That's like, well, I know what I'm getting for my shift for the next however long it's on tap. Lucia: Oh yeah, same here. Yeah. Nick: Yeah. So I, I guess this is another broad question. How do our, other brewing locations influenced like what happens at B1? Lucia: We get a lot of support from Comstock, the brewery right outside of town. But there is no dedicated engineer for B1. So I kind of float around Comstock doing various engineering projects and then the door was open. I'd have an opportunity to do something out downtown. So that's kinda been my only exposure to it, but I know because we do share so many resources, say they need maintenance support or they need an engineer to come help design the new system. That does play a part, it's not necessarily the brewing part of it, so to speak, but, the vessels that were installing for this three barrel system, we actually designed out a Comstock. We have an educational series that we do on Wednesdays that Kevin Stuchell runs and we decided that we wanted to start talking about a pilot system and then John Mallett and Andy sort of ran with that one and had a sort of a lecture about designing brewing systems, but also an interactive one where it's like, okay, now we're going to talk about how you would design the ratio for this vessel or we'll talk about the heat transfer area needed or we'll talk about why it's important you need freeboard on this vessel. So it became really interactive and a cool like, oh, hey, you remember all that math you didn't think you're going to use. This is a practical application for it. So all of a lot of our brewers, it was well attended. A lot of our brewers showed up for it. We're really engaged. We're really excited to be a part of the process. And that was before they even knew that was going to for sure turn into a physical brewing set. So now that it's installed, I'm hoping to do another educational session where I bring pictures and talk about the beers were making on it and kind of bring it full circle like, hey, you were a part of this like you're the reason this thing is here. Like we all worked together and did the math and thought through our plan and now we have this sweet brewing system that we're going to make stuff on. Like that to me is super awesome. So that way Comstock was very influential on B1, but at the same time like that, I think that innovative spirit that started downtown definitely still influences Comstock to this day. I'm definitely that spirit of innovation, that spirit of what's what, what if we tried this? What if it was a little bit of that are a little bit of this, which I think is super cool. Maddie: It's cool that there's so much education involved in the work you're doing to try and make sure everyone's aware of what's going on. You know, it's neat that it's not just like stick to what you do and then know what you do and then that's it. It's like, you know, we want everyone to be understanding what's going on here and how they can be a part of it. Lucia: Yeah. I think it's really valuable and of course I'm biased since I'm an engineer. I like to understand the whole and the parts that make up the whole, but it's really useful when you can see all of that and get more knowledge outside of maybe your particular specialty or get exposed to something that's a little bit new. You can, you can learn something and sometimes a different perspective is really, really valuable. Especially when working in big teams like this. It's a pretty cool process, and it's a fun opportunity for folks who never would have tried their hand at designing something, say a brewing system to finally get this kind of step into the ring with some, some helping hands and talk about it and talk about the logic behind it and do some simple calculations. “Bucket Engineering” as John Mallett calls it and make a brewing system. Maddie: What would you say your favorite part is about what you do? Lucia: Hmm. I like that it's very hands-on engineering. A lot of what I studied in school was pretty math heavy, which I like, but it's cool getting to do the applied engineering, like, Oh yeah, I'm doing this math or I'm, I'm reading about all these concepts because it's something now that I can physically install. It's something I can put together and like watch it run and watch people interact with it and see how it actually works. I think that's super cool. Maddie: Yeah, that's definitely. I mean, just like the work I've been doing in communications is. That's one of my favorite parts about it is you can put in all this work and you can actually see the finished product, but you can see people's reactions online. You can see how people respond to it and it's very cool to like put in time and then have a finished product and like point out I'd be like, this is where all the hard work went and it looks great. Lucia: Yeah. Yeah. And it's a little harder when it's behind the scenes, like, not that I'm out to like sing to everyone, hey, that was my thing at all, but it is kind of cool to see things change around the brewery and be like, yeah, I helped with whatever I designed for that or I helped with planning for that or I was engineering support when such and such thing kept breaking. That's, that's pretty rewarding, Nick: Right like the path from on paper, like theoretical to like actually putting hands on it and applying it and like finishing the product is, it can be very satisfying and it's cool to see, you know, I guess being there from conception to completion, that's kind of rare I think. Lucia: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's something you don't ever really get experience in an educational setting doing that unless you have very particular lab set up for it or if you have more hands on internships. So it's been really, really cool to actually get to do that. Like, cool. I have to come up with an eye, I see a problem or a talk to people and hear about something that's going on, or I hear about this cool new thing we want. Okay, figure it out, figure out what we want, put it together, get through a project, and then provide support on it so we feel really confident in it and confident in our skills. Like that's pretty damn cool. Nick: Thank you to our guests, Andy, Karli and Lucia for taking the time to speak with us about brewing at Bell's. I'm Nick. Maddie: And I'm Maddie. Thank you for listening to The Shifty. Cheers.

Here at Bell’s, we’re constantly trying to foster the relationship we have between what we do and who we do it for. In an effort to strengthen the connection between brewing beer and the people who drink it, we're inviting you to meet some of the people who help make some of your favorite beers. The Shifty is a new podcast we’ve created to tell the story of Bell’s through the stories of the people who work here. We share a post-shift beer and great conversation with people from several different departments in order to show you how our beer goes from tank to table through a short series of approximately 20-minute-long episodes. In episode one, we speak to Land Steward Jake Grevenstuk about his work on the hop yard and sustainability at Bell’s. This episode shows you where it all begins: the land and the people who take care of it. We also speak to Land Steward Bonnie Steinman and Director of Operations John Mallett about their contributions to Bell’s. The Shifty can be found on iTunes, Google Play and  Spotify. We’re hoping this series will give you a fun look at Bell’s that you’ve never had before, and you might even learn a thing or two along the way. [[{"fid":"7806","view_mode":"default","fields":{"format":"default","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":false,"field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":false},"type":"media","field_deltas":{"1":{"format":"default","field_file_image_alt_text[und][0][value]":false,"field_file_image_title_text[und][0][value]":false}},"link_text":null,"attributes":{"height":3000,"width":3000,"style":"height: 300px; width: 300px; float: right;","class":"media-element file-default","data-delta":"1"}}]]Links Sustainability at Bell’s Bell's Brewery growing own hops for Side Yard Ale 2017 Hop Harvest at the Brewery a Success Video: Roping the hop yard at Bell's Brewery Video: Side Yard: A wet-hopped New England style IPA from Bell's Brewery Transcript Jake Grevenstuk: Or if I see a sweet jaguar and I take a picture of it, I will literally text it to Larry. Be like, “hey, this one's pretty sweet.” Maddie Parise: Hello, and welcome to The Shifty: The official podcast of Bell's Brewery. Every episode we sit down with a member of the Bell's crew during their post shift beer, and figure out why they came to work today. I'm Maddie Parise- Nick: And I'm Nick Lancaster. Maddie: And today, we're talking to Jake Grevenstuk, and land steward at Bell's. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey to start working with Bell's and what happened there? Jake: How far back do you want to go? Maddie: As far back as you want to take it. Jake: I feel like all my experiences kind of culminated in this role. I grew up on a farm in Martin, about 20 minutes north of here. I spent five years at a greenhouse. So for timeline sake, I started there when I was in seventh grade. My grandma would pick me up from grade school and take me there. It started as a summer job, and then I just kind of stayed through high school. Then, I got into residential landscape construction and did that for about 12 years or so. Spent a brief snippet of time at a nursery in Ann Arbor. A landscape nursery, did a lot of tree planting, bulk deliveries, and stuff like that. Ended up coming to Bell's as a facilities tech, with a little bit of a slant to the outside, back when global services was still a thing. I started working for Jeff Carter as that facilities tech. And then a couple of reorgs later we had Evan Meffert, I was working under him, and then Walker Modic, and now with Ralph Stocker in the products and engineering department. It's going really well so far. Maddie: So your current career has been kind of a long time coming? Jake: Yeah, kind of a long time coming. Kind of like all these different things that I've done in the past, it all just really added up to this. I used to do the landscape construction, and in the winter time I'd plow snow or whatever. I feel like I'm just kind of a well rounded individual, a chameleon at times if I need to be. I can do a lot of things. Nick: I kind of like the idea of leading with the question, why did you come to work today? Jake: Why did I come to work today? That's a pretty good question. I've got people, plants, that rely on me to be there. If I don't show up then like things die, and the place starts to deteriorate. Maddie: You have a big impact. Jake: Yeah, there's kind of a big impact I guess. Not that the world would crumble if I weren't there. Maddie: We don't know for sure though. Jake: Yeah, we don't know. But we do have a hop yard, and it needs a lot of care. It's been a huge help just having Bonnie this year, this is kind of the first spring that I've had an extra set of hand, so that's been huge. Bonnie Steinman: It's great to be here because we take care of everything that is Bell's outside. Nick: That's Bonnie Steinman, one of the land stewards here at Bell's. Bonnie: It's like the gateway to the brewery, and every entrance we take care of it. Then the hop yard is just like a bonus. Nick: Okay. Maddie: What is the backstory on the hop farm? Jake: Back when Evan was running global services, Larry wanted to get some hops in the ground. I say Larry, I don't know, I assume Larry, but it could've been anybody. Nick: Someone up there. Jake: Somebody wanted some hops on the grounds, and so Evan planted a couple dozen plants. Ya know, we had some hops, we checked that box. When I came on board we kind of had more conversation like, "we should do something with the old little hop spot there, can you dress that up?" And I was like, "we should go a little bigger cause I'm a big dreamer." I got big plans, big ideas, I got my agenda I want to push. I thought it'd be cool if we had enough we could use for something, and that kind of developed into, "how big do we go then?" - and that sort of thing. It was fun, that was kind of my first project, designing the hop yard and getting that installed. Worked really close with Bonnie at that time, when she was with Hop Head Farms. The hop yard itself sits on a portion of land that we have a geothermal field. So that was kind of unbuildable space, and as landscaper, "let's put in a hop garden." In quotation marks there. So I had some conversation with Evan and Mallett, and got in touch with Jeff and Bonnie at Hop Head Farms. I came up with that idea, pitched it, and it flew. Larry liked the idea. I think it's a good thing. Employees love pulling in and seeing it, you know the tour people. Nick: It's very aesthetically pleasing I've noticed. Maddie: Right. Nick: Sure, there have been some great photos that I've seen of it, but it's like you walk out there, and I don't know we shot a little video the other day for Two Hearted, and we had John Mallett out there. It was funny, every time we were trying to film the hop would swing right in front of him whenever they tried to film him. You pull up and you don't really notice how massive it is, and then you walk out there and it's like there's a ton of hops out there. Jake: Yup. There's about 2,300 hundred plants on that two acres. So, yeah, you got double that on the number of knots I tie each spring for the ropes hanging down. Trying to get my clove hitch down to a science with both hands. Nick: So what does into the planning of that, like the hop field? What sort of technology do you have to use in order to plan that stuff out? Is it hand drawn schematics almost or is it like some sort of computer program that sort of lets you do that? Jake: I'm sure there are computer programs, I just hand drew it on different scales and tried to come up with something that worked. It's basically a square with a little knock out for the little tour pavilion that's there now. I'm glad I planned for that little tour pavilion that we put in this spring. Hopefully, we can get some more people using that space and eventually maybe we do something a little bit more. I basically just hand drew it and then started inaudible materials and that sort of thing and that sort of thing. Ended up putting in black locust poles, they're untreated so there's no chemicals on those. They're just basically cut down trees, but they're superior in rot resistance so that kind of why they get used. They get used in smaller form for a lot of fence posts, and it's kind of the old farmer's thing to use them for fence posts and put a rock on top, and when the rock falls off you need to replace your fence post. Maddie: How big of a deal is being sustainable to the work that you do? Jake: I would say that it's a big impact. So, basically the design of the landscape around the brewery is somewhat dictated by the engineering that has to take place for parking lots, roads, and the building itself. So, we have to have drains in certain areas, and this, that, and the other thing with that. But, the landscape itself, we're a brewery, we used a lot of water, but we don't want to use anymore than we have to. I think that goes into our beer, it fits with all that, ya know. We want to reduce that, and in the landscape, it's the same way. I did a case study, if we did have your typical sports turf grass or just a turf grass that needs high maintenance. Grass is typically your highest maintenance perennial landscape when you think about where you spend your time. You mow your lawn once a week, but how often do you trim your shrubs? There's kind of that. I did this case study, we would be using 4 million more gallons a year if we had irrigated turf, that required the high maintenance. Maddie: That's incredible. Jake: Yeah, and it's just that we don't need to do that. I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to be like a slave to that, I guess. Maddie: It's a waste of time and resources. Jake: Absolutely. To me that's kind of where the land steward part fits, because you're a steward of the land, but you're a steward of the resources of the company as well. We don't need to waste money, and we don't need to waste resources like, water. Nick: Exactly. What are you drinking? Jake: Two Hearted. Nick: Two Hearted, classic. Jake: I kind of froze up there for a second, I've been drinking a lot of Larry's Latest IPA. Nick: It's so good. Jake: Super delicious, of course. I was just having a conversation with Drew, the land stewardship intern, and she's like, "I really like the darker beers, like the Ambers." I was like, "Man, I do not drink enough Amber." That is for sure, so I kind of wanted to get an Amber, and I kind of wanted a Larry's Latest, but when in doubt there's Two Hearted, it's the best IPA in the country, ya know. Nick: The old stand-by. Jake: Best, beer in the country- Nick: Yeah. Maddie: Yeah. Jake: Number one. Maddie: What do you think makes Bell's different than any of the other jobs that you've had? Or just even the other craft breweries you know about, like what makes Bell's different than other places? Jake: Well, I haven't worked at any other breweries, so I can't speak to some of those other cultures. But, I think the culture that we have here, the family culture, everybody can hangout together. That's why I like being a Bell's employee, it's still kind of a badge of honor, I think. You gotta be a certain person or a certain type, but we can all hangout together. So I think like, I don't know if it's psychologicaly or whatever, but we're all similar in certain ways, but we're all so different in a lot of ways. But we've got great diversity and when we come together we can do really awesome stuff. We've got this pub and we can come down here and hangout and drink some beers, and share our stories. I think that's pretty sweet. Nick: Yeah, exactly. It's like, there are so many different people, and so many different perspectives at work that you know while you're working you might not be able to get into, but then the way culture is, it's like, "Alright, well we're done working now. Let's do downtown and have shifty." And then you start talking about one thing and than everyone is just talking about their own passions and interests. From my perspective, the jobs that I've held, I've never really been this close with coworkers before, to the point where's after 8 hours I still want to have a beer with them at the end of the day. That's sort of a rare thing, I think, for a company to have, that I still want to hangout with this person 8 hours later. Jake: Yeah, we have our professionalism, we wear that hat when we're at work, and we can do that. And then we can take that hat off and let our hair down. You learn the other side of that person or just more about them. Nick: We learn about other departments too like, "what did you do today?" Jake: Yeah. Dr. Luke was probably a good example, he comes down here a couple times a week, or once a week. I love talking hops stuff with him, and watching the fire in eyes light up. He's like, "Oh, I got this experiment kicking in my head. Oh that would be sweet, we gotta do that, we gotta do that." And like, I think we're all driven that way, where we have great ideas. I think that comes, part of like that Bell's ethos, where we're all driven that way. Nick: It's also culture where the people will listen to those ideas if you have them. It's definitely not like, "You are my subordinate, and I'm the higher up and what I say goes." If you have an idea for something or you think maybe something should be done differently or could be done better, it's definitely culture of listening. It's like, "Oh, okay, that's actually a good idea." Jake: Yeah. I think that's a strong case within the leadership. I think it's really important to listen to everybody. You're not gonna get that fresh idea yourself, most likely, that's gonna come from somebody on your team or somebody else or some other interaction. Like, to have that light bulb moment, it might flip something for you, but it takes fresh pair of eyes sometimes. Nick: Yeah, absolutely. Maddie: I think the big thing I've noticed about Bell's is the way the morale is here. It's different than most any other place I've worked. People are excited to come into work, and you can tell people like their jobs and they're not just doing this because they need the money. They're actually passionate about it- Jake: Oh, totally. Maddie: It just makes coming to work so much better when you know the people you're sitting next to are thrilled to be there as you are. Jake: Yeah, definitely, and no matter what they're doing too. I know we had the 12 barrel system was kind of commissioning a little bit yesterday in there, monkeying around with that. The new system out at Comstock, the specialty line I guess you'd call it. Lou, Mallett, and Straz, they're all kind of staying there and watching their little baby grow, and we all do that in whatever our little way is. It's exciting to just look around and see people doing the same thing. John Mallett: The whole idea for the 12 barrel system came up as part of a much larger discussion. Maddie: That's Director of Operations, John Mallett. John: And that larger discussion was always, we have a fantastic brewing program here at the brewery and as we develop beers from small to big, the route that we've used is brewing beers downtown. That system downtown, that system's been around for awhile. Bell's Brewery has had it for at least 25 years now, and it brews 15 barrels, we often run it as a 10. It could run a little less. That system's is good, we make good beer on it, and then when we bring those beers to Comstock they change a little bit. It's just the difference from the ways from the level of automation, the way that the way mash and the wort are handled. The idea was, "Wow, if we could develop beers on a smaller scale than 50 barrels, that then translates to 50 barrels, that makes it's a lot easier." So, the decision was then made like, "If we're going to do this, we should do this in Comstock." So, we've got good translation through there, and be able to use these spaces. Once that decision was made we said, "We're going to build this new system. Who's going to build it for us?." Pilot systems are kind of quirky things because we're really trying to emulate something that is big, on a smaller scale. The problem with that, if you think about baking a cupcake versus baking a regular cake versus baking a really big cake, there're some things that change there. So, designing that system from scratch, to get it to the place where we'd be able to translate it through was our real goal. After determination who was going to build it, all of the engineering concerns that go in there like, what are the ratios and sizes? How are we going to do this? What are the controls look like? This new system is running all of the same software, even the base technology behind it is the same as those larger systems. Overall, it's been a fantastic project. I was just overjoyed to see us finally making wort out of the system. I mean, it came in and it got set up and installed, and it started up very quickly. So far, everything looks fantastic. Nick: Well, I think we got time for maybe one more question and then we can wrap it up. What do you think if the future of craft beer? Maddie: That's a loaded question. Jake: So loaded. I think the future of craft beer is going to continue to rise. I think it's gonna slowly rise though, and not everybody's gonna make it through. But, I think, especially Bell's, I feel like we're just super well positioned in the market. Nick: In a market that's becoming more and more, I feel, homogenized, I guess. Jake: Sure. Nick: Like, I feel like the big corporations are starting to try to scoop up craft breweries. Jake: Yup. Maddie: Hm-uh (affirmative). Nick: That's kind of the rare thing about Bell's is that we wear that badge of like completely independent and family owned very very proudly. Jake: Yeah, I sent an email to our president and CEO today, and I had response within hours. Nick: Right. Jake: I don't know if that's the case everywhere. Nick: Right. Maddie: Yeah Nick: That sort of access to be able to be like, "Hey, I have a question for you." Jake: Or if I see a sweet Jaguar and I take a picture of it, I will literally text it to Larry. Be like, “Hey, this one's pretty sweet.” Nick: Get a response like, "Hell yeah, that's awesome." Jake: Yeah, pretty much, ya know. Maddie: It's cool that we're doing such big things, but still has that feeling of closeness and community that you don't get at a larger corporation. Jake: Right. Right. Absolutely. But I think beer is here to stay, it's been around for a long time, I don't think it'd going anywhere. It weathers the storms in all markets. Wine's been around probably equally as long, like they've got more wineries than there are breweries. There's no reason that all those wineries are just gonna disappear. Maddie: Right. Jake: We'll see, but I don't we're going anywhere. Like I said, we're well positioned in the market. I feel confident with my career here. Nick: Awesome. We would like to thank Jake for stopping in and kind of taking part in our little experiment here. Jake: Thanks for doing it. I think this is awesome. I would love to do this, on the reg. Nick: Once you get bit by the podcasting bug, you don't get unbit. Maddie: Right. Nick: You just want to do it all the time, and I think it's just a great medium for conversation and explaining to our fans, kind of giving a little behind the scenes look at what we do and what we stand for. Jake: I tried to do a blog once, because I just wanted this kind of creative outlet. I was going some photography, and trying to just write about the photos and that sort of thing. Now, that I've got this position here, I'd love to just write or talk more about what we do at Bell's that way. I think that'd be just awesome. Maddie: The kind of work we do kind of pushes you to be creative, because you just want to share with everyone. Jake: Yeah. Nick: Yeah. Jake: Absolutely, and build so more. I know I've got some room to improve the awareness piece on how we manage the grounds and the hops, and everything else. We're going to be working on that over the next year or two. Nick: Awesome. Maddie: Well, thank you so much for talking to us about this. Jake: Absolutely, it's probably time for another Two Hearted. Nick: This has been The Shifty with Nick, Maddie: And Maddie. Nick: Thank you for listening, we'll catch you next time. Cheers.

You’ve tasted the beer, you’ve seen the labels and now it’s time to hear from the people who make Oberon, Two Hearted and all of the other beers from Bell’s Brewery. The Shifty is a new podcast where we sit down with some of our coworkers and talk about how the ended up at the brewery, what their jobs entail and their passions. We’ll have seven initial episodes scheduled for the coming weeks where we interview brewers, packagers, members of our creative and HR teams, as well as the man who started it all: Larry Bell. Subscribe to the Shifty on iTunes, Google Play and Spotify.